An interview with Tibetan independence activist Kalsang Phuntsok
Kalsang Phuntsok is a member of the Tibetan Youth Congress (TYC), which is involved in a peaceful struggle for liberation from China.
Phuntsok has two Master’s degrees, one in economics, the other in business management. He is a founding member of Songtsen Birjuti Samajic and Sanskritic Sewa Sangh. He served as president of RTYC Kathmandu from 1999-2001. Now he is the president of TYC again, in India.
On July 13, Munish Nagar interviewed Phuntsok at McLeodganj, Dharamshala, in India.
The Tibetan struggle for independence is more than 50 years old. It has had many ups and downs. How close are you to reaching your goal?
Yes, definitely, the last 50 years have been most of the crucial part of the Tibetan freedom struggle. It should have collapsed during that time, but now, after 50 years, it is a kind of international issue. Not only are we able to keep ourselves united, not only are we able to preserve our unique culture traditions, but we are also able to make a tangible impact, that the Tibet issue has become an international issue.
So looking from that perspective, we can say that the last 50 years were very successful, considering that this movement is a national movement. But we cannot say that we are able to achieve what we want. We cannot say how far we have traveled. Maybe this is just a beginning. Having said this, we must realize that we have done what we have done despite huge odds. But the last 50 years have been very satisfying.
You always hold protests and rallies in India. Do you think it will open the ears of the Chinese government?
When we challenge China, we should understand their interests, where the shoe pinches. What are the areas that cause them concern? Therefore, during the last ten years, China has been very much careful about human rights issues — they are careful about the violations. So looking from this side, we can say that the small peaceful demonstrations in parts of India really make them think twice. China did not respond immediately after these demonstrations, but they took very serious notice of it. The daring things, like violent protests, would not let them down, but the opposite [non-violent protests], it will make them happier to tackle the Tibetan issue.
Now they have come to the international stage and are trying to make themselves acceptable at the international level. And they are trying forcibly to convince the world community that China is like any other country in the world, where human rights are respected. They try that economically. They are strong — militarily they are strong — but the problem they are facing from the last ten years is that they are not able to promote the concept that China is a free society. Therefore, we can say that the small demonstrations in parts of India make them responsible and reactive. So these small demonstrations are important. Maybe the demonstrations are not making a big impact, but they are hitting the bull’s eye.
How successful are you in getting the support of India and the international community in your struggle?
Countries like India, Nepal, and Bhutan have special reasons to support us, not necessarily out of sympathy, or because of Buddhism. [That] impresses them, but the reason is the geopolitical situation is such that we have a long history of interconnectivity.
We need a huge program on our side to educate people that the Tibetan issue is also their issue.
We are not going to the Indian people and saying help us because Tibet is helpless. But we say that the Tibetan issue is also their issue because geographically Tibet is close to India. Mahatma Buddha was born in India and Buddhism started from India. Rivers that flow in India originate in Tibet. And moreover, India never felt any threat from our side. Most of the literate and intellectual Indian people understand us.
When we go for the Western countries’ support, they have a different concept. Maybe they talk about the environment, human rights, Tibetan Buddhism, and maybe they are very much attracted by the Dalai Lama, or convinced by Tibetans — but somehow their support is based on humanitarian grounds.
Whenever you talk about the support of the international community, the national interest of every country comes first. They will abandon all the promises if their national interest … [is threatened]. But the support which we have here in India, Nepal, and Bhutan comes as the national interest of these three countries, unlike the other countries of the world.
During the last 50 years, what role has the United Nations and its organizations played to settle the Tibetan issue?
United Nations organizations have been very positive toward our human rights issues. It is very important to understand the nature of the U.N. Whenever I go to my people, I often say to them, do not expect too much from the U.N. because it’s an institution made by the sovereign states to protect their own interests.
The U.N. has failed miserably during the last 50 years. They failed to check the powerful nations who misused their powers. They failed to listen to the voice of oppressed people from the different parts of the world. But despite these facts, the U.N. is the only institution from where you can expect justice. Now the human rights commission has their own funding and they are not under any control.
Three resolutions have been passed in favor of Tibet, in 1959, 60, and 61. And they specified that the Tibetan people have a right to self-determination. Tibetan people have the right to decide where they want to go, whether they want to remain with China or to be independent. These resolutions are very important at the international level, because these resolutions are the basis of the Tibetan struggle.
Today, no one can say that our movement is not based on tangible reasons. This is a different question that they were not able to implement. It was not discussed in detail because India was very reluctant at that time. When we talk about that time, of the slogan from China — Hindi-Chini Bhai Bhai (Indians and Chinese are brothers) — in those days, they chose to not interfere in the Tibetan issue. And the Indian leaders, at that time, always thought that the interest of the country was to support China.
However, later they realized the mistakes they made. And they realized that the Panchsheel was a mistake. But they had no time to correct it. And so after that we got India’s support.
Therefore, it is the impact of the U.N. which has raised the human rights issues and the Tibetan issue in the whole world. Slowly it is becoming powerful and restructuring itself. I am optimistic that in the coming 10 to 15 years this institution will become worthy of its name and aims.
Why did you leave Tibet and come to India? You could have fought while remaining there?
When China started occupying Tibet in the early 1950’s, China was very much against the Tibetan way of life. They did not accept religion. Mao had said, in a friendly gesture to the 14th Dalai Lama, “Religion is a poison that will keep your country backward all the time.”
China has historically considered that Tibet and Tibetans are backward, hostile, ill-mannered, and an unacceptable ethnic community. In 1959, when Tibetans raised their voices against the Chinese and the Chinese killed those who were opposed to the communist government, we were able to keep the Tibetan movement alive because we were able to bring the Dalai Lama alive to India. On March 10, 1959, if he were killed or arrested by the Chinese, the Tibetan issue could have come to an end at that particular moment.
When the general bombarded the palace of the Dalai Lama and they searched for the body of the Dalai Lama and did not find it, immediately the general received a call from Mao. And Mao asked him only one question, “Where is Dalai Lama?” When the general replied that the Dalai Lama escaped and we [the Chinese] won, then Mao replied with four words, “No, you have lost.”
Due to the successful escape of the Dalai Lama, we were able to build our movement. That was the reason to leave Tibet. And when the Dalai Lama received the Nobel Prize in 1989, he became an international figure. Therefore, coming into exile has made another beginning for the movement.
Now that China has opened the railway line to Lhasa, will it have a big impact?
One American historian has said that whoever rules Tibet can rule Asia and whoever rules Asia will rule the world… Similarly, whoever rules or owns the oil fields of the world will rule over the world. China has limited resources of oil and natural gas. But in Tibet, there is enough oil and natural gas. And China is exploring the possibilities of oil and natural gas in Tibet, but it is very expensive to drill the fields there.
Three months ago, the Chinese government invited tenders from international companies to come there and drill. Ten fields. Every country has oil but they need more and more. The place in this world where the oil is and you can possibly get it — that is only the African continent. Countries like Sudan, Somalia, Nigeria, and Kenya have plenty of oil and natural gas resources. But they are poor countries. And they are always ready to invite those countries to drill who could secure their future. And China has already invested so much there.
If you have to get oil and other raw material from Africa, how are you going to get it into China? The only possible way is through Tibet. They have already set up a pipeline to China. Now Tibet has become not only a geo-strategic place but also the storehouse for China. Whatever China exports to the world, first it stores in Tibet, and then distributes it to other countries. And whatever China gets from the world, first it stores in Tibet, and then send it to different parts of China.
These days, because of the railway line and train, Tibet has become most important for China. And that’s why a writer has clearly said that this is the end of the Tibetan issue. Now China will not tolerate anyone talking about separation of Tibet from China. Now China is convincing its people that Tibet is a beautiful place and encouraging them to go to Tibet. The Chinese officials who are posted in Tibet get huge incentives and perks along with salaries. The businesspersons who start businesses in Tibet get big support. So, through the railway line, it will be easier for the Chinese to come to Tibet. This railway line is not only meant to control Tibet, but it is meant to control the whole world.
The Tibetan Youth Congress protested against the Chinese government in New Delhi regarding that railway line. Was there any response from the Chinese side?
The Chinese do not speak even a single word because if they speak, it means they are responding, and if they are responding that means they are making Tibetans happy and making China look bad. They are very much egoistic and that’s why they do not speak. But whatever we did, they heard. We want that. Whenever they do wrong, they must know that the Tibetan people look at them with a suspicious eye, because the Tibetans in Tibet do not have the right or freedom to speak against the Chinese. And that’s why we represent them. And tell the world that whatever China does or does wrong in Tibet will be condemned by us.
However, the protests in New Delhi in front of the Chinese embassy had a huge impact in the whole world within an hour. It was reported in more than 60 countries of the world, and we were successful to rise at an international level against the Chinese. And every intellectual or literate of any country says that China is not doing well in Tibet and the railway line would not benefit Tibetans any more.
